Quad pedal race car - refurbish and improvement [ I hope ]

[stormbird]

Or tap the existing one out. The taps aren't cheap but you'll likely use them more than this one time.

My engineer does have the taps needed. However his words were ' there is no way I am putting my £1k each taps in that BB shell ! '
That is probably a no then

My gut feeling is I need to master welding these rather than spend time or money rescuing this one ?

Paul

 

[Popshot]

Somewhat cheaper here £73.40 delivered.

https://www.webbline.co.uk/shop/bottom-bracket-taps-bsa-pair/

Or if you fancy your ability to make a holder from some tube and a bit of weld. £39.25 delivered

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...sea!UK!1891404558!&curPageLogUid=5k18l4JGLGzu

 

[stormbird]

Somewhat cheaper here £73.40 delivered.

https://www.webbline.co.uk/shop/bottom-bracket-taps-bsa-pair/

Or if you fancy your ability to make a holder from some tube and a bit of weld. £39.25 delivered

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...sea!UK!1891404558!&curPageLogUid=5k18l4JGLGzu

Thanks for this , i will put it on the back burner ....
It may still be a goer who knows ?

Paul

 

[stormbird]

Ok so why no updates for 20+ days , well things are progressing down hill at a rapid rate !

I realised the BB solution I was working on would require 4 vertical inside corner welds as well as some complicated joints being cut and the welds were way beyond my skillset.
Also every where I look I see lots of work.
The steering components need a thorough overhaul then it became apparent the kingpins had reached the end of their service life there appeared to be no Centre point angle in them and an attempt at adding Ackerman had not gone well [ or worked ! ]

The M8 bolts should be in the welded over holes in the end where it is stronger.
So I need to prioritise work into :-
a) needed for safety or for it to work - on the road as soon as possible
b) can I improve anything I work on for a)
c) nice to have but not essential

So it is a) all the way.
Assessment as it stands:-
new BB mount
new pulley mount
new kingpins with caster and centre point
investigate why ALL wheels don't spin freely
mount BB7 calipers

c) things now on back burner
lower seat
replace Samagaga differential with a free wheel differential
attend to body work

So this is the new simpler BB mount , I can weld into the car , it needs a front brace adding however I have the first part welded.

There are now 2 right angle flanges welded on 3 sides at both ends to the tube the BB stem is welded to.
They should be straight forward to weld to the chassis , as they can be reached from the top and underneath with no need to weld the vertical side [ I think ]

So all's rosy with the world , so I though.....

I had been measuring the BB position from the plan it said 10" from the front of the front cross member and I nailed it.
Out of curiosity I measured the BB centre to the seat front and came up with 25" that did not ' feel ' right , I turned around and measured the Python [ different seat ] it was a shade OVER 29" yikes I can't fit in that. Especially as the more laid back you make the seat for racing the longer that distance needs to be.

​

Ok out in the cold dark garage with the plan and a tape measure , my car DOES NOT match the plan !

where measured	plan	car
front x member to rear BB x member = close	30"	28.2"
front x member to rear front seat mount = where's my 4" ?	46"	42"
w/b = not really close	52.8"	49.5"

 

[stormbird]

So all's rosy with the world , so I though.....

I had been measuring the BB position from the plan it said 10" from the front of the front cross member and I nailed it.
Out of curiosity I measured the BB centre to the seat front and came up with 25" that did not ' feel ' right , I turned around and measured the Python [ different seat ] it was a shade OVER 29" yikes I can't fit in that. Especially as the more laid back you make the seat for racing the longer that distance needs to be.

​

Ok out in the cold dark garage with the plan and a tape measure , my car DOES NOT match the plan !

where measured	plan	car
front x member to rear BB x member = close	30"	28.2"
front x member to rear front seat mount = where's my 4" ?	46"	42"
w/b = not really close	52.8"	49.5"

Seems I am a #1 t*t , I enlarged the plan till the 20" wheels were @ 1/4 scale 5" , this morning causally measure the wheels with Kojak racing slicks on to find they are 19" a good 5%+ error and with I suspect some printer errors we have a car not matching the plan.

So I now have a dimension-ed drawing and will be back at the measuring later on today with a bit of luck.

This also probably means the BB is in the wrong place and will have to be hacked off and re-welded DOH

Paul

 

[Popshot]

Just to throw another curve ball but can you assume the plans are perfect?

 

[stormbird]

Just to throw another curve ball but can you assume the plans are perfect?

Popshot in this case yes [ mostly ] it seems I was also sent a 1 page PDF that had dimensions on it and the car was built from them , I was offered the CAD drawings however turned them down as a step to far !
I realised I did not print the dimensioned PDF out to 1/4 scale as it did not show the wheels and so there was no ground plane.
Next up print it out and confirm the dimensions.
At first glance it would appear I have the BB about 5/8th's of an inch to rearwards , do I correct this ?
Paul

 

[stormbird]

Ok finished new BB mount by adding a strengthening brace

Front is to the left

In situ looks good , realised it would be much easier to paint it in the house [ where it's warm ] than in the garage.
So need to hunt out some primer and some gloss paint.

Yes I still need to weld it to the chassis , however that is only both ends and I can keep the paint away from them and touch them up later.

Paul

 

[stormbird]

Ok long time no update , usual excuses weather , other commitments , turning pallets into fire wood etc etc.

In the back ground stuff not worth reporting has been going on , trying to improve the steering , trying to figure out why the brake mounts are in the wrong place.

it seems there is still lots to fix before I can ride it and some will just have to stay ' unfixed ' for now.

next in the transmission systems , as the BB mount is being painted indoors , is to add a pulley mount like this:-

Sadly whilst the car has usable pulleys , same as in picture , the current mount looks like this :-

So yet again it's out with the grinder and chopping some rusty lump off...

Obviously better however in the back ground you can see other jobs just waiting in the wings ..

Started mount and should have it done in a couple of days ?

Paul

 

[stormbird]

A small step forward ...

The pedals are almost welded in.

A real struggle as the joint in the middle of the car was almost unreachable [ for a TIG welder ] it involved dragging the car forwards and tipping the nose off the trolley , then propping up the rear and whilst it teetered I had to stand on some wood to reach over and round the BB someone had inconveniently welded to the frame member

Flush with a little success I decided to look at the rear axle beam and disc mount brackets ....

Swiss cheese and cutting disc holes abound , oh and a spot of rust !

Underside does not look much better , have no idea what the bent and mangled tube is on the left.

The unused holes on this frame member out number the used one's by about 6 to 1 !

The seat rear mount and these [ shown above ] need cutting off next , oh what fun...

Paul

 

[stormbird]

Ok last of cutting I think , especially as i am bored with it !

So rear seat upper mount and brake caliper brackets resting on the patio table , took all day to get them cut off and clean up the area where they were welded on , between commitments/eating/dog walking etc etc

needed to uncap theses pillars to see what was happening inside , as I suspected held by Rivnuts probably not strong enough and why use them when there are holes all the way through for a long bolt and for safety a lock nut on the outside. Unfortunately Rivnuts means the hole nearest the plumber block is now oversize.
I think for strength I will have to prove a long bolt will go all the way through then cap the tops , there needs to be the same at the bottom as well.

These are the 2 rear seat mount tubes , they have now been ground off the main frame sides.

This is an early car with some modifications , I may have to copy this seat mount , it is easier than replicating the old I removed and would allow for the front seat mount point to be dropped also [ also in this picture ] which will aid cornering.

Paul

 

[stormbird]

First stab at a disc caliper mount , least they bolt on so no hard welding

The challenge is to get this 50x50x3 mm angle in the right place to attach a caliper saddle ?

Underneath the farthest blue clamp part are 2 M6 holes that need transferring to the angle underneath and leaving the picture
on the left under the bearing.
I sharpen a M6 furniture bolt to a blunt end and dabbed the end with some felt tip till it marked some masking tape on the angle.
In the ends of the bearing pillar you can see another mess I need to rectify...

here you can see both bolts have been added , I took this picture as a record should I need to replicate this on the other side.
I am unsure as the calipers are not handed and may not fit this way ?

Out with the wood and on with the sculpting of the angle to accommodate the piston body , and then mounting holes.
is there no end to the joy this brings [ please don't answer that ! ]

Paul

 

[Popshot]

I normally make caliper mounts by using a zip tie on the caliper lever to hold the caliper to the disc, shaping the metal for the mount, bolting it to the caliper and then weld the mount to the chassis in that order. By clamping the caliper to the disc before welding you get perfect alignment of caliper to disc. With non-handed calipers your mounts will be totally different side to side. With handed ones they'll be a mirror of each other.

 

[stormbird]

I normally make caliper mounts by using a zip tie on the caliper lever to hold the caliper to the disc, shaping the metal for the mount, bolting it to the caliper and then weld the mount to the chassis in that order. By clamping the caliper to the disc before welding you get perfect alignment of caliper to disc. With non-handed calipers your mounts will be totally different side to side. With handed ones they'll be a mirror of each other.

Thanks almost word for word DannyC's suggestion and of course standard AZ method should a newcomer be reading this do it this way !
Sadly not for me this time , I am trying to restore it to the same standard/way it was originally built.

This means the mount is bolt on , this for me is further complicated by the fact at sometime in the near future the Samagaga diff may be removed and replaced with a 2 x freewheel and chain solution no doubt this will result in the disc rotor not being in exactly the same place as it is now , a bolt on mount should make it easier to implement ?

Paul

 

[stormbird]

At the moment my boiler is dead , so the focus is on pallet wrangling to feed to the beast in the lounge , however as a treat
I do try to grab 30 minutes a day to make some progress on the car.

So while awaiting Santa-bay delivering some 180mm rotors I though I would look at another problem , the rear seat mount.

The original disappeared years ago and the replacement was very rusty and welded at a bit of an angle oh and would stop
the angle grinder removing the disc caliper mounts so had to go.

The front mount and 1 of the 3 sets of seat mounting holes results in this , I have added a wooden rear mount to see what
angle the seat is and how big the mount parts need to be.

I need a horizontal X member about where the visible hole is in the side frame , and 2 verticals topped with a cross piece for the rear upper seat mount holes.

It won't be as tall as this below those gapping holes [ that need filling when the weather gets warmer ] in the seat back are a pair much smaller and I think the right ones.
Currently the seat back angle is very close to the Pythons @ <> 45' , a bit of a surprise it could be considered not very aerodynamic however I realised
It is probably this angle to allow some view of the yet to be fitted body work.

So next up bit more trimming and markings added to the wood to allow some steel to be cut.

Paul

 

[stormbird]

Wow so little progress this had slipped to page 2 [ note to self must do better ]

Bought some 25mm sq timber to mock up the original seat mount , it is probably the way to go ?

Colours:-
red - not steel in the original just additions in wood to make this work
blue - horizontal tubes to span void and support seat back
green - seat back support for upper seat mounts.

threads on front are where lower front seat mounts are.

Seat back not sat square at moment so need to look into that.
I need to measure all the added timber to check it is in the right place on the frame.
Square up the seat back the right hand side is a bit lower as the original frame part it is resting on it lower than the left side
Trusting nothing I need to measure up the seat to see if the drilled holes I have chosen are actually:-
the same distance from each other down the seat length
the same distance from each other across the seat
same distance from front and rear of seat

Still a small step .......

Paul

 

[DannyC]

You'll be riding that next week then?

 

[stormbird]

You'll be riding that next week then?

Which day ?

One thing I need to check before using the heat stick is chain lines ?
Look where the diff is ! in the centre of the seat back !

also wonder if Pegasus has the correct filler rods for welding wood .....

I'll get my coat

Paul

 

[stormbird]

Hi all

Couldn't wait , slipped out this morning and tried seat :-

Holes are where I though seat should mount , green blobs felt tip through seat mount holes.
Within 10mm to say that
a) nothing was measured
b)seat is currently sat on blue clamp heads
c) rear frame sat at an angle

that's pretty close.

Currently seat looks a mess to many holes some big and ragged 4 years worth of dirt and some old insulation [ well it may be ] ?

It is actually a real master piece , very deep and body hugging shape and only 820 gm !!!

Paul

 

[stormbird]

Ok last horror story [ I hope ]

The seat mount when added will severely restrict access to the centre of the rear axle , cassette & diff so I need to ensure they are correct and working before the rear upper mount is welded on.

Now I am very worried about the rear mech mount ?

I remember DannyC having problems with to little chain wrap causing skipping [ not him silly the chain ] the hanger is displaced both upwards and rear wards from it's normal position.

The new R cars have mounts like this

and the pivot sits directly underneath the halfshaft

this looks different to mine as the R cars axle is in front of the rear cross member , on my H car the axle is behind the rear cross member

I will have to see if some holes exist for a mount fitted like this , instead of the welded on piece , which probably won't work reliably if at all ?

Paul