Quad pedal race car - refurbish and improvement [ I hope ]

[DannyC]

Ok last horror story [ I hope ]

The seat mount when added will severely restrict access to the centre of the rear axle , cassette & diff so I need to ensure they are correct and working before the rear upper mount is welded on.

Now I am very worried about the rear mech mount ?

I remember DannyC having problems with to little chain wrap causing skipping [ not him silly the chain ] the hanger is displaced both upwards and rear wards from it's normal position.

The new R cars have mounts like this

and the pivot sits directly underneath the halfshaft

this looks different to mine as the R cars axle is in front of the rear cross member , on my H car the axle is behind the rear cross member

I will have to see if some holes exist for a mount fitted like this , instead of the welded on piece , which probably won't work reliably if at all ?

Paul

Oh My! You seem to be up against it at every step of the way Paul. That's no fun is it?
I hope you can find a position for the changer that works OK.

 

[stormbird]

So to many days hid in the garage out of the way of the weather me thinks .....
We are in a relatively mild spell so it's outside on the garden doing some surgery !

Persuading the frame it is for the best

So the plan is to add/rebuild what should be there , else I can't go to Jes and say ' this don't fit ' or ' the plans are wrong '
Green marked wood at bottom will become 1" square and the 2 uprights either side of the Samagaga will be restored to their old height
Add-ons mocked up with wood and clamps and the on the right is the left hand rear seat support leg.
However in the past someone moved the right hand bearing mount [ left one in picture ]

Leaving this problem of no where to support the right hand seat back support [ on the left in the picture ] , whilst not hard to fix with a welder it
is juggling with :-
a) what can I do now
b) will it interfere in the future with someone wanting to remove the Samagaga for a different solution
c) does this Samagaga actually work [ I don't want to be the person removing it !!!]

So the only way to answer c) is to take the Samagaga apart of there was considerable resistance to it being turned when mounted in the car.

Looks to be brand new with no sign of use [ I would have expected the grease to be black ? ]
So maybe it is just stiff due to it being very cold outside and the grease is not suitable for this job ?
Anyone any thoughts ?

Paul

 

[DannyC]

So to many days hid in the garage out of the way of the weather me thinks .....
We are in a relatively mild spell so it's outside on the garden doing some surgery !

Persuading the frame it is for the best

So the plan is to add/rebuild what should be there , else I can't go to Jes and say ' this don't fit ' or ' the plans are wrong '
Green marked wood at bottom will become 1" square and the 2 uprights either side of the Samagaga will be restored to their old height
Add-ons mocked up with wood and clamps and the on the right is the left hand rear seat support leg.
However in the past someone moved the right hand bearing mount [ left one in picture ]

Leaving this problem of no where to support the right hand seat back support [ on the left in the picture ] , whilst not hard to fix with a welder it
is juggling with :-
a) what can I do now
b) will it interfere in the future with someone wanting to remove the Samagaga for a different solution
c) does this Samagaga actually work [ I don't want to be the person removing it !!!]

So the only way to answer c) is to take the Samagaga apart of there was considerable resistance to it being turned when mounted in the car.

Looks to be brand new with no sign of use [ I would have expected the grease to be black ? ]
So maybe it is just stiff due to it being very cold outside and the grease is not suitable for this job ?
Anyone any thoughts ?

Paul

With it out of the way and disconnected from the half-shafts, do the wheels and shafts now spin freely?
Did you say "one-side" was harder to rotate than the other?
I can't see anything wrong with it from the photo's. Didn't the previous owner say it had not been ridden since the Diff was added?

 

[Popshot]

That's a lot of grease. A car would have the diff in oil. Samagaga says these are maintainance free. Do you know if that is Samagaga grease or if it's been opened before?

 

[stormbird]

DannyC & Popshot

Samagaga was new and I so I assumed unopened , previous owner stated it had no more than a very very short proving ride.
Seems I am the first person to go inside it , you may be able to see faint traces of the blue locking compound I found on the bolts.

I suspect grease is used as there is the most flimsy of rubber 'O' rings in a very small groove in the joint , more I suspect for keeping water out
than oil in !

Paul

 

[undertoad]

If you decide the grease is too thick, but that oil would leak, there's maybe another alternative.
"Corn Head" grease is used in certain agricultural low speed gear boxes, and it's halfway between an oil and a grease.
It's rated as an NLGI "0", or maybe "00", I forget
I've used it in some vintage outboard motor lower unit gearboxes, and it works well, as it doesn't leak like oil.
It's technically grease, but it flows almost like oil, but thicker, and really clings to the gears.

 

[stormbird]

If you decide the grease is too thick, but that oil would leak, there's maybe another alternative.
"Corn Head" grease is used in certain agricultural low speed gear boxes, and it's halfway between an oil and a grease.
It's rated as an NLGI "0" - I've used it in some vintage outboard motor lower unit gearboxes, and it works well, as it doesn't leak like oil.
It's technically grease, but it flows almost like oil, but thicker, and really clings to the gears.

Thanks for this very interesting , try and find some cheap in the uk is the next trick.
Paul

 

[undertoad]

I bet you can find some - I've heard they have farming equipment over there

 

[stormbird]

I bet you can find some - I've heard they have farming equipment over there

Yes you provided enough detail NLGI 0 is spot on , many thanks.

Panicked a bit when I saw this as a first choice :-

However I think this is enough to have a bath in

Paul

 

[DannyC]

Yes you provided enough detail NLGI 0 is spot on , many thanks.

Panicked a bit when I saw this as a first choice :-

However I think this is enough to have a bath in

Paul

Semi Fluid Grease <£8 for a Kg on e-bay.

 

[stormbird]

Semi Fluid Grease <£8 for a Kg on e-bay.

A quick glance I saw 500gm for <£8.00 yesterday

Is this the famous stuff they use on leaking Landrovers ?

Paul

 

[undertoad]

I owned a Land Rover once, many years ago, and I recall that it did leak.
OTOH, all the cars I've owned were old, and they all leaked, somewhere or other.

 

[stormbird]

So need to get the seat frame welded on , after accepting that this car cannot be restored to the build plans [ to much stuff out of place ] I decided to follow the plans in spirit and add the 2 horizontal pieces however now in line with the moved pillow block mounts.

My lack of welding skills are now becoming very apparent as I try to get the frame in a position where I can get in to weld.

The left part needs 4 welds around it to join it to the lower seat frame , top of picture.
And 4 welds around it to join it to the rear cross member.

top

bottom

No pretty [ gaps ended up to big for ' neat TIG ' [ which I can do occasionally ]] however strong enough to hold whilst I get the other 3 on each joint done , hopefully Sunday

Then it is on to the right seat mount , then the 2 back pieces and joiner bit easier than these [ I hope ]

Paul

 

[undertoad]

Position is everything

 

[undertoad]

Speaking of TIG welding, I recently learned an interesting tip, about tungsten point shape - This is for welding steel.
When I first started with the TIG, I would grind the tungsten like most of the pictures in the "books",
that is, with a pretty acute angle (pointy), and a minute blunted tip.
I could weld OK, but my beads were usually wider and messier than I would have liked.

What I learned, is that the arc radiates from all the surfaces of the point, on its way to the weld puddle.
A long point means the arc has more of a bell shape to it, and the heat is spread wider.

When I started welding with a MUCH blunter angle on the tungsten (maybe about 45º, or less), it looked like the arc was more focused straight down, which made the weld bead narrower, and seemed to have better penetration, for any given current setting.

Maybe everyone knows this already, but I didn't, and it really helped - And I really need all the help I can get.

 

[stormbird]

Speaking of TIG welding, I recently learned an interesting tip, about tungsten point shape - This is for welding steel.
When I first started with the TIG, I would grind the tungsten like most of the pictures in the "books",
that is, with a pretty acute angle (pointy), and a minute blunted tip.
I could weld OK, but my beads were usually wider and messier than I would have liked.

What I learned, is that the arc radiates from all the surfaces of the point, on its way to the weld puddle.
A long point means the arc has more of a bell shape to it, and the heat is spread wider.

When I started welding with a MUCH blunter angle on the tungsten (maybe about 45º, or less), it looked like the arc was more focused straight down, which made the weld bead narrower, and seemed to have better penetration, for any given current setting.

Maybe everyone knows this already, but I didn't, and it really helped - And I really need all the help I can get.

No not heard of that , will give it a try.
Paul

 

[stormbird]

So the other side lower seat support ....

Clamped in place , however there is a note on the back end of the chassis to remind me to weld up some of the grinder marks left by previous surgeries.
This is me part way along one before I tackle the hole.
I think on something that is subject to dynamic forces a hole like this could be the start of a fracture and could go unseen long enough to turn into a accident ?

Got the seat cross member welded on easy enough , although again gap was a bit big so weld was untidy.[ not sure what happened at the end , very messy ! ]

The weld at the other end was an inside corner [ I am getting better at them ] and the frame was balanced like this.

Welding near the blue clamp , torch over clamp and both filler rod hand AND torch hand resting on the frame
with it gently swaying from side to oh and kneeling down.
Not a foot pedal weld

Would you credit it the weld was a corker , always seems to be the way with my welding.
It is nice to have one good weld per session.

Now got the 3 other welds each end , then a cross member for the upper seat mount.

Paul

 

[DannyC]

Gosh! Look at all those acres of space in that large uncluttered workroom; there are even clear patches of floor! Sheer luxury that is.

 

[stormbird]

More welding and more despair !

Black lower piece welded to is right chassis leg mounted on rear x-member , new metal is seat mount , as I cannot weld in the gap
I added this strap to distribute the stress [ I hope ] should be easy enough to move in the future if need be.

After packing the welder away and rolling it over I find another gash that needs welding up.

So in a change to the advertised program i though I would take a look at the rear half shafts - diff & pillar block bearings

Cleaned up the inside of the races and GT85'ed a M17 rod there was no way I could get all 4 to line up.
However the diff allows for a little off centre between the 2 half shafts [ I hope ] so tried that ....

As can be seen bearing 2 up from the bottom does not touch at all , the diff has become split in 2 and
won't go back together and it is possible the whole assembly is as bent as the picture implies.

So what is the desired assembly sequence , my diff is a different make otherwise it is driven exactly
the same way as the one used by Jes on his Apollo cars.

Puzzled Paul

Update a trip to the garage has revealed a major problem....

I placed a clamped a square steel tube across the lower bolt holes of all 4 posts , this is one of the two centre ones
[ they are both the same ] that is a M3 Allen key not even filling the gap !!!
No wonder the bearings are all over the place.
Now this is going to very very messy to fix , how many spacing washers can you juggle at once ?

Paul off to bed my head hurts ...

 

[undertoad]

how many spacing washers can you juggle at once ?

Once you figure out how many, you could just line them up and put a spot weld on the edge of the stack to hold them.
That frame is such a mess, that you must be at the point of wondering if it would be best to start new