WC2024 - World HPV Championships - a folly to far ?

Hi all

So these World HPV Championships are in the UK this year , still a 6hr+ drive from me however apart from the Thames no huge amount of water to cross.

I want to take part........

First up I need a mount and some training/fettling for the events ?

Pedal Car- most unlikely now - although would be nice there will be others there
Python - completely unsuitable - narrow - high - some what lacking in stability @ speed

No time left to build anything and get it ready ....

So I went back to an old friend and bought this back off him.

s-l1600-1.jpg


It is a Nazca Fiero I need to be able to ride it 3 times a week for fettling and training so there was no point in buying something
only suitable for the track.
As it stands Nazca Fiero is 19kg however there is some weight that can be trimmed for the racing and it is tall enough
for being safe on roads the seat is very laid back for me I shall need a neck rest and some practice LOTS !!!.
The ride will be buttock clenching for the first few weeks it has a lot of tiller the steering is very quick and the bars are narrow.

crystal-engineering-festina-recumbent-lowracer-Image16-1280x640.jpg


He also had this oh YES to racing , on the street oh NO NO NO


WC 2024 World HPV Championships
Race Programme
Friday 16th
13:00 Registration
17:00-20:001-lap time-trial

Saturday 17th
09:00-09:15Criterium race briefing
09:30-10:451-hour criterium (slow)
11:00-12:151-hour criterium (medium)
12:30-13:451-hour criterium (fast)
14:00-15:30Flying sprints (100m)
16:00-17:30Standing-start sprints (300m)

Sunday 18th
09:00-09:3015-min criterium (slow)
09:45-10:1515-min criterium (medium)
10:30-11:0015-min criterium (fast)
12:00-15:303-hour endurance race
16:30-17:00Prizes and medals



I shall only be hoping to do all the events in red , some weight loss will be important , some a rear fairing may help without making the bike
to specialised [ like say wholly faired ] so it cannot be used on the street.

So next up get leg length right and handle bars right get/fit a speedo on it and see what it can do now....

More to come....

Paul
 
Hi all

So these World HPV Championships are in the UK this year , still a 6hr+ drive from me however apart from the Thames no huge amount of water to cross.

I want to take part........

First up I need a mount and some training/fettling for the events ?

Pedal Car- most unlikely now - although would be nice there will be others there
Python - completely unsuitable - narrow - high - some what lacking in stability @ speed

No time left to build anything and get it ready ....

So I went back to an old friend and bought this back off him.

s-l1600-1.jpg


It is a Nazca Fiero I need to be able to ride it 3 times a week for fettling and training so there was no point in buying something
only suitable for the track.
As it stands Nazca Fiero is 19kg however there is some weight that can be trimmed for the racing and it is tall enough
for being safe on roads the seat is very laid back for me I shall need a neck rest and some practice LOTS !!!.
The ride will be buttock clenching for the first few weeks it has a lot of tiller the steering is very quick and the bars are narrow.

crystal-engineering-festina-recumbent-lowracer-Image16-1280x640.jpg


He also had this oh YES to racing , on the street oh NO NO NO


WC 2024 World HPV Championships
Race Programme
Friday 16th
13:00 Registration
17:00-20:001-lap time-trial

Saturday 17th
09:00-09:15Criterium race briefing
09:30-10:451-hour criterium (slow)
11:00-12:151-hour criterium (medium)
12:30-13:451-hour criterium (fast)
14:00-15:30Flying sprints (100m)
16:00-17:30Standing-start sprints (300m)

Sunday 18th
09:00-09:3015-min criterium (slow)
09:45-10:1515-min criterium (medium)
10:30-11:0015-min criterium (fast)
12:00-15:303-hour endurance race
16:30-17:00Prizes and medals



I shall only be hoping to do all the events in red , some weight loss will be important , some a rear fairing may help without making the bike
to specialised [ like say wholly faired ] so it cannot be used on the street.

So next up get leg length right and handle bars right get/fit a speedo on it and see what it can do now....

More to come....

Paul
Maybe should have bought the one and hired/borrowed the other? ;) (Not saying which is which.) :D
Not sure how any "off campus" rides around the Deal area could get done intermingled with that lot as the timings are tight and a man's got to conserve his strength for the rides. We will all want to know how much you weigh on arrival Friday and on departure Sunday. :D
 
You can't just get on these low racers and ride them ! it needs some miles before you can ride them with any confidence/safety.
The only way to do that [ for me ] is my 3 times a week ride , which means it has to be able to handle traffic and roads safely ,
this means you need to be in charge of it at all times. Not it deciding it would be rather be over the other side of the road.

I did know where this was for sale as well :-
4739645588-29a9c6e464-b.jpg
cookoer2.jpg


Naked _____________________________________________and clothed


Paul1.jpg
and yes I can ride it ;) but it ain't easy.

Going out for a ride was only an option should I not be racing , then I would maybe give them a day helping set up a day we went out for a ride
and a day helping them pack up.
Obviously not an option should I participate sorry.

Paul

 
You can't just get on these low racers and ride them ! it needs some miles before you can ride them with any confidence/safety.
The only way to do that [ for me ] is my 3 times a week ride , which means it has to be able to handle traffic and roads safely ,
this means you need to be in charge of it at all times. Not it deciding it would be rather be over the other side of the road.

I did know where this was for sale as well :-
4739645588-29a9c6e464-b.jpg
cookoer2.jpg


Naked _____________________________________________and clothed


Paul1.jpg
and yes I can ride it ;) but it ain't easy.

Going out for a ride was only an option should I not be racing , then I would maybe give them a day helping set up a day we went out for a ride
and a day helping them pack up.
Obviously not an option should I participate sorry.

Paul
No apologies necessary, it is going to be fun I am sure. Esp. if you place well as a chap of "our" age. ;-)
 
So why no progress posted , well because I haven't made any !

chopped-DSCF8383.jpg


I found the new tyres I bought Schwalbe 16 x 1.75 were actually larger in profile than the 16 x 1.75's the bikes came with. Now the original bike ones are lighter and smaller however they have all suffered from age related cracks in the sidewalls despite having almost no miles on them !!!

front-wheel-DSCF8387.jpg


So I have had to lop the front off and extend the joining part , here it is mocked back up to get enough clearance for the newer rubber.
Gap currently 1/2" I will probably make it 1" , yes I know I can have it as big as I want however this is all coming off my inside leg measurement and so moving the pedals backwards and my heals closer to the front wheel.

May be able to move the seat further forward , don't remember how close the crown jewels are to the front upright ?

So get this gap right and next problem is how to measure head tube angle ? it was set and welded on before I added the pedal boom .....

Paul
 
So I can't get my head around this trike so best think to do is photograph it alongside the current ride ?

next-to-python-DSCF8393.jpg


Now it is easier to see :-
how low it really is ;)
next-to-python-seat-DSCF8394.jpg


Foreground 16" wheels back ground 20" wheels so if rear wheel is 4" taller and upper seat mount looks to be about 1" higher than wheel , new trikes seat must be about 5" lower - nice.
next-to-python-rear-DSCF8397.jpg


Now this is the sort of track I would like - Python is 24" and reasonable stable with this seat height about 12"

Racing trike currently has track of only 16" and a seat height of about 6" , I want the wheels to be inside the shadow of my shoulders
and of course for it to be safe when racing - a tall order.

The rear wheels also need to be far enough back for my elbows not to rub on them , although occasional contact will be ok as I have some elbow pads to wear.

So we slowly move forwards.

Paul
 
I appreciate that you CAN go narrower by going lower with the centre of gravity but why? If it's a racing machine is there any advantage in narrow? Racing will push stability as far as it can go and having width to spare seems wise.
 
I appreciate that you CAN go narrower by going lower with the centre of gravity but why? If it's a racing machine is there any advantage in narrow? Racing will push stability as far as it can go and having width to spare seems wise.
Drag ?

If I can get the wheels into the shadow of my shoulders then the drag will be reduced considerable ?

The engine is sadly lacking !

Yes I am also hoping there are NO tight corners !

Paul
 
I forgot about drag. Good point.
Only if the engine can push it fast enough ;) other wise drag is negligible .

Sobering thought ?

At speeds over 10 mph (16 kph), aerodynamic (aero) drag becomes the dominant force of resistance, with no wind on flat terrain: At 18 mph (29 kph) it becomes 80% of the resistance. 25 mph (40 kph) it becomes 90% of the dominant force.

Paul
 
Only if the engine can push it fast enough ;) other wise drag is negligible .

Sobering thought ?

At speeds over 10 mph (16 kph), aerodynamic (aero) drag becomes the dominant force of resistance, with no wind on flat terrain: At 18 mph (29 kph) it becomes 80% of the resistance. 25 mph (40 kph) it becomes 90% of the dominant force.

Paul
Best get on a diet then? :)
Mind you, now your missus irons your T-Shirts on an upturned Wok, it may not help? ;)
 
At speeds over 10 mph (16 kph), aerodynamic (aero) drag becomes the dominant force of resistance, with no wind on flat terrain: At 18 mph (29 kph) it becomes 80% of the resistance. 25 mph (40 kph) it becomes 90% of the dominant force.

Paul
I assume those figures apply to a diamond frame road bike rather than a recumbent?
 
So mocked up for cutting:-

ready-to-mark-cut-DSCF8411.jpg

You can see the big block maintaining the 4" ground clearance at the back.
The lump of wood behind the tyre for 1" frame clearance.
Lump of wood holding the BB in a place that gives ....
head-tube-angle-DSCF8413.jpg


72' head tube angle [ and a little change ;) ]
the-line-DSCF8415.jpg


.. and the biro mark plus one top and bottom to cut to.
Did I tell you I like wood !!!
It is now all clamped up in the garage awaiting welding , and yes more wood :)

Paul
 
Ok so it be welded , not you can't see the welds they look like they were done by a 10 year old.
Best described as ugly but strong.

longer-now-DSCF8416.jpg


Now I have the bigger tyre on the front and still have some frame clearance , seat and rear wheels just dropped on for effect.

longer-front-view-DSCF8419.jpg


Cool view from the front and yes I had to name the fork legs L & R to ensure I welded the correct end to each leg [ now that would have been a rookie mistake never to have graced this thread ]

longer-rear-view-DSCF8420.jpg


So I am hoping this will be the eventual rear wheel width tyre centre to tyre centre 16" , however for starters I will make a training set up @ 24"
like the current Python and once i have set up and mastered [ I hope ] the FWD I can look at reducing the 24" to 16" which I am hoping will be inside my body shadow.

Next up it needs pedals and finding the seat position , then we can add a chain and go for chain management.
I have 2 choices I think
2 pulleys like this:-
2-pulley-Img-1065.jpg

Bit more drag and noise ?

Or 1 pulley like this:-
Nononsense13.jpg

It is possible this will be less maneuverable and someone who rides a configuration like this says it can derail the chain @ the
cranks if pedaled backwards , not a desirable trait for a street machine probably less troublesome if racing it ?

Paul
 
I can see #1 having a lot of friction loss - Maybe a compromise between the two.
Can the smaller, forward idler be placed lower down, maybe on an outrigger of the fork, or an extension from the front "boom" ?
That way, you'd have a little better chain management than #2, but not make the chain do such a radical direction change........... Maybe.
 
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