Danny's Daily Delta

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Instead of having the front wheel frame take a straight path past the dropouts and then add extra metal to mount the BB, why not angle the wheel frame upwards after the dropouts to the position you want the BB and attach it directly to that. That box looks stiff enough to require no extra bracing.
 
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Instead of having the front wheel frame take a straight path past the dropouts and then add extra metal to mount the BB, why not angle the wheel frame upwards after the dropouts to the position you want the BB and attach it directly to that. That box looks stiff enough to require no extra bracing.
Yup, I did think of that Popshot, and it's a really good idea. What stopped me was sheer cowardice the need to clamp everything in place to keep the frame as square and true as possible. It is easier to do that in a single plane on a sturdy steel-topped bench. The steel rule seen in one of the pics was used to check I had the centres of the ends and the dropouts all in a straight line. It would have been a bit more difficult to clamp and line-up if I had put the kick-up in the mix as well. With this easy way out approach the last bit of tube has one angled cut and a specific length to be considered and seemed easier to achieve.
 
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Update Monday 6th April 2020:

I was recently reminded by the "Mansfield Mafia" that my search for perfection is a wasted effort because we are not NASA nor precision engineers working to mm (or less) tolerances.

So that spinny-thing that makes a lot of noise and short work of metal attacked my lovely front tri-mangle and cut wedge-shaped lumps out and kicked the thing up like Popshot suggested last week.





A variety of props were used to "Mind the gap" and the sparkly-thing melted some cheese-straws into the gaps while the station announcer wasn't looking.




Now, whenever I can fathom out how to narrow the front end to a pointy-thing and can attach a BB, The chain will not strike the frame.



The remaining issue is that the chain-rings will hit the frame IF I do not manage to create a sufficiently pointy end.
This is tomorrows problem.

If I cannot resolve it, then 12M of fresh steel is en-route to Clarke towers and we can start again. :ROFLMAO:
 
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..and I though that you were now out of the cellulose fiber and smelling of tea plants ?

How wide is the end compared to a BB then ?

ps the boys will be around for the protection money next Monday - be in !
 
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How wide is the end compared to a BB then ?
Too wide at 100mm Vs. 68mm. :(
"I have a bold & Cunning plan Captain Blackadder Sir."


I am going to narrow the framing to as much of a point as I can, but as close to the designated spot where I want the BB axle to be while still clearing the tyre. That is the best that can be done.
IF (very likely) the smallest chainwheel is fouled I shall take a slice out of the frame so it doesn't foul, and plate it over. I have seen this on rear tri-mangles on bikes so it is a valid approach.
There will be a report later.
 
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Update 7th April 2020:

A mixed bag of results today.
The frame got a prow, as elegant as that on the Titanic (Shhhhh...... yes is has holes in it just as big).

Setting things up for this task was a real struggle and ensuring the frame stayed square & didn't twist was also fun.




But it was accomplished, this picture of the frame held "upside-down" in my bench-vise is the test re-fit of the wheel after the prow had been tacked on sufficiently. Yup! All still good.




It is difficult to get pictures that do not distort and go all "fish-eye" in the confined space, but with the prow fully welded on the frame is still ok (right way up in the vise this time).



Lastly, a BB shell has been offered up to the frame in order to check clearance and position. It fits within 2cm of the expected position but it is clear (as anticipated) that the chainwheels will strike the frame.
A slice will be taken out of the frame and plated over to allow the chainwheels to run unimpeded.



I am hoping to get this last operations done tomorrow.
 
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getting there ....

although I would not relish welding the BB in , hole looks very small so not much weld length and because of the front mech tube really cramped access to some of it ?
 
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getting there ....

although I would not relish welding the BB in , hole looks very small so not much weld length and because of the front mech tube really cramped access to some of it ?
Gaffer-Tape and chewing gum it is then! Settled.
I agree it is going to be awkward, I may have a great deal of trouble with it. C'est-la-vie. I may cheat and put a small top & bottom plate on the frame to assist in providing two horizontal weld-lines rather than try and follow the contours of the BB.
 
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I may cheat and put a small top & bottom plate on the frame to assist in providing two horizontal weld-lines rather than try and follow the contours of the BB.
Not cheating and a viable solution in my view.
 
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Update 8th April 2020:
More got done today (after gym time and the unblocking of the utility room sink's drain (awful job).

Didn't get out to the "shop" till the afternoon and have had a good "rummage" and a "dabble" with the front half of the trike.
I did get the BB tacked on and fitted up with cranks. The position is good, the changes have put the BB in the right spot at least. :)

The mech-post is obviously at the wrong angle, and this will be corrected, along with a host of other changes.



Surprisingly, there was no interference with the frame, but then the BB wasn't in the centre of the frame.



Here is a shot of the very tight clearance of the chainrings with the frame.




At one point I put a chain on (loosely) and the chainline was NOT PRETTY. This persuaded me to do a bit of frame chopping and BB shuffling to get some better alignments.

So I have chopped a section out of the drive-side of the frame and reinforced it with 3mm plate in order that tomorrow I will be able to shift the BB across and improve the chainline.
However, with the BB shell tacked as "dead-centre" as I can measure/judge it; the chainring now strikes the cutaway frame....Go figure! 🤪 It must have been WAYYYY out of line earlier.



While it is beginning to resemble a "dog's breakfast" it is also getting closer and closer to completion.
If we have another wonderfully sunny day tomorrow I shall persevere and try and get the BB shell properly welded in, and in a good orientation (square & true) and the chainrings on and the mech-post set at a decent working angle.
 
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Looks like it's coming along very nicely - really like that seat set up
Thank You! It is a labour of love (allegedly). 🤪
 
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Update Thursday 9th April 2020:

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Get the sparkle-stick out and have at it.
He spoke not platitudes, but with his grinder, plate-he-chewed.
Time and again the plate he chopped until all was silent, (the fuse he'd popped).


Anyway, in other news...... :ROFLMAO:

I have a working crank-set and it fouleth not the frame, praise be to all the gods in heaven.
Although forsooth it must be said,
the builder isn't quite-right in the head,

...because.... it is not full-square to the axis.
The BB shell was attached in a cowardly fashion with the use of 3mm top & bottom plates to provide a really firm anchorage to the frame.
I found a threadless BB that was wider than the threaded one and is 129mm and although it "rocks" inside the BB-Shell a little it has allowed me to move forwards.
A.N.Other sealed BB cartridge (131mm) is on its way so I can screw that in and get rid of the annoying rocking.






I even put a chain on and it looks OK and nothing catches on any chain-ring.
Tomorrow I will try and put a derailleur mech on the dropouts and finalise a chain length to accommodate the triple up front.

Happy Days!
 
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Update 10th April 202:

Harrumph. Tried quite hard to fit/fix a rear derailleur for chain tensioning but to no avail whatsoever.

A standoff mechanism will be required to avoid derailleur cog to sprocket clash that occurs when you mimic a standard bicycle arrangement.

Gone away to have a sulk and a think. Back later.

LATER: I think I have an answer and it is fiendishly simple if it works.
 
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Can I assume you are addressing the cut out visible on the right of the picture ?



Maybe 2 3mm thick triangles as shown in red , top and bottom and plated over with some 3mm to close it off ?
 
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Can I assume you are addressing the cut out visible on the right of the picture ?

,edited out the <pic>.

Maybe 2 3mm thick triangles as shown in red , top and bottom and plated over with some 3mm to close it off ?
Nope, I created a standard derailleur hanger on the drop out at the same place as on a normal frame but it is impossible to get the derailleur to present the cog around which the arm rotates anywhere near the large dished sprocket of the 8-speed IGH. IF you think about it a derailleur moves the cog inwards and & away from the axle to "climb" up a cassette to the lower gears, and the IGH has the only and biggest sprocket at the start of the derailleur's travel. As I don't need it to move at all and don't want a cable on it either, the normal way of things is no good.
So, I will hack the darned thing off and go to plan-B which will be to fix a derailleur onto an M12 threaded shaft at a good radial distance and using nuts on the shaft move it in/out for perfect alignment between the sprocket and the derailleur cog. That should work. If you put an IGH on your new trike feel free to copy or improve on this idea.
 
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hmmm

is the answer to the question I asked ?
 
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hmmm

is the answer to the question I asked ?
Ahhhh..... so velly solly, colona vilus addled blain and misunderstood you.
Holy-hole in flame furry closed off now. Visible hole filled with 3mm plate.
However, it is still the stepped "L"-Shape. All in 3mm. So should be plenty strong enough if not as pretty.
 
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Nope, I created a standard derailleur hanger on the drop out at the same place as on a normal frame but it is impossible to get the derailleur to present the cog around which the arm rotates anywhere near the large dished sprocket of the 8-speed IGH.
Are you sure ? as you really only want half the derailleur and only 1 of it's jockey wheels ?

IF you think about it a derailleur moves the cog inwards and & away from the axle to "climb" up a cassette to the lower gears, and the IGH has the only and biggest sprocket at the start of the derailleur's travel.
See above ..



Maybe you need one of these ?

As I don't need it to move at all and don't want a cable on it either, the normal way of things is no good.
Every think you don't add , adds lightness...

As you say my battle shortly.
 
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Update 11th April 2020:
Another mixed-bag today, but on the whole progress has been made. :)
I managed to mount a rear derailleur that actually does the job and gobbles up slack chain from Big->medium->small front ring changes.

In the picture below you can see the original hanger I made as well as the new one that guides the returning chain links onto the rear sprocket.



Here it is from another angle. It works well and the derailleur does not foul anywhere.



This picture shows the clamping arrangement of the derailleur arm which is fastened rigidly to a 25 x 3 mm bar with some M12 studding and a nut either side.


Here is the assembled frame & seat with the working drive-train all ready to tour the world. Only needs steering, bars & Brakes and a rider. 🤪


Same thing from the rear.



And from the front. Looks kinda-sexy doesn't it? :)



And the other side.



Here she is with the wheel sitting almost straight ahead.



Side-shot again.



But it is clear that the BB shell has gone askew. So that will be coming off again to get itself "straightened up".

See how bad it is? The pedals help show the problem very well.
I will sacrifice a BB cartridge to assist in setting it straight by cutting the welds and clamping the crank(s) parallel to the frame to get the angle correct.

 
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