My life with Python trikes Mk1 , Mk1.5 , Mk2 ?

Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
1,107
Location
Netherlands
Now you and Emeil have spent a year extolling the flaws of tilt steer , so I shall keep well away...
Also DannyC of this parish has a aversion to twisting chain so another black mark against it.
Impressive turning circle , although he is just sat on 2 elastomer's as I am ?

Had plans for this for a while 26 x 26 tilting delta always slightly tempted by it's simplicity ?



Good selection of pictures here :- Triflex


Even a video !

Perhaps tempt DannyC might work well with 24" wheels and SA brakes on the back ?

The main problem is the videos imply there are 6 versions ! so obviously ironing out some flaws me thinks !

Paul
I think that the main reason that there are several versions, is because of the amount of steering as you tilt. I think that outside other things, the main thing is to find the balance in tilting and steering.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
1,107
Location
Netherlands
I was thinking of building a Mosquito, but also adding a phyton front.
Then you get the self centering from the mosquito and influence on the steering.
Depending on the angle, you can lower the tilt steer.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
I admire the determination to stick with it though I don't understand why.
Thanks
It's easy for determination to become stubbornness though.
Not really , the flaw with it's steering only came to light because I was leg steering as most Pythons & Flevo bikes/trikes do but I never have before.

In the long term I wanted to have steering bars anyway , just that when first built it seemed a lot easier to ride with no bars on the steering part so that is what I went with.

If it is a construction problem and an easy fix it may prove difficult to correct this version.
So it will be designed/built out of the next version with narrower track and higher seat.

Compared with the stories from other tilting trikes it is a miracle ?

Stands on it's own , no tilt lock or other unnecessary devices
can be ridden hands free
turning circle is awesome I can now hit the floor with the pedals if not careful
it does not try to dump you

What's not to like ?
If you want to control the tilt more then two rod ends would create a fixed tilt axis instead of the wandering one at present. The elastomer,s will then only comply in the direction the rod ends allow. That would remove all elastomer suspension though.
Yes an improvement was to remove the rod end and make a sort of U/J coupling so only 2 axis of movement , that proved to be somewhat difficult in the limited area the rod end sat in , then I got sidetracked with the steering issue.
That seagull was actually a parrot and it was already dead. Cue "The Liberty Bell".
He told you about it then :LOL:

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
I was thinking of building a Mosquito, but also adding a phyton front.
Then you get the self centering from the mosquito and influence on the steering.
Depending on the angle, you can lower the tilt steer.
Someone built a Jetrike with a Python front end , the Python front ripped it apart and it had to be abandoned !

However go for it !

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Ok got a bit more done today ;-



In conversation with DannyC he suggested I DID NOT cut up the newer python front end , I probably immediately changed the subject [ as I do when I am unsure what has been said ! ]

I realised the wisdom of what he was saying , then promptly cut it up anyway.

He was correct I should not do it as I currently have 2 trikes that can be ridden with 5" height Python pivots and if I converted this front end to a 10" high pivot then out goes a trike.

However it had a couple of flaws ?
  1. the chain hits the frame stopping the higher gears being used
  2. mudguard mounts foul the chain.
  3. steel is to thick so it is very heavy.


I decided to fix the first 2 and then use it again on the prototype , so out with the grinder , I slit the main frame on the straight bit halfway between the drop out and the frame bend and forced the BB up approx 4.5"

I will check I have chain clearance before I plate over the gaping gap :whistle:

I removed the mudguard mounts and will put them on just behind the axle out of the way of the chain and my ankle.

next up USS bars for the prototype ?



This is the cut down trolley pivot and a piece of 3mm angle , to get everything in the right place the bolt will be at the other end of the slot and the angle sat above the 2 semi-circles which is the current bar position.



before they are welded together 2 x M8 bolt holes will be drilled in the angle to allow the bolting of some normal handle bars to it.

Plans are afoot for a front with a 10" pivot height and if that works the 5" height trikes will be consigned to history , or as it is know locally Ebay :)

that's about it for today ...

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Did the cutting on the front frame work ?



YES ! previously this gear [ 7th ] was unobtainable , the chain attempting to saw it's way through the frame at point ' X ' on gear 6.



We can't quite ' drive a coach and horses ' through the gap ? however a fag packet will definitely fall out !

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Ok so new self inflicted dilemma ?

Do I continue with my next iteration ? lower frame @ 10" and 10" pivot height shooting for a 15" seat height and 24" rear track ?




or






Do I refurbish my original Flevobike trike and see if I can ride it ?



As can be seen behind my prototype I also have a shabby fiberglass back box for it...



Which fits in this hole.

it has
438 x 20 rims [ listed as Dutch juvenile ] can't tyres or tubes being available for them
old school wood valve inner tubes
rim dynamo
Magura hydraulic rim brake
Front hub 3 x 6 with hub brake
front ring 62T
box
lights
stand
more elastomer's than you can shake a stick at
2 handle bar positions

It came in 4 parts so I have no idea what does and doesn't work , nor whether I can ride it.
Someone reversed it with the cables loose and the front cassette has attempted to eat the rear derailleur cable so that will probably need changing.

Fun , fun , fun .....

Paul
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,197
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
What "Original Flevobike Trike" is this then? :unsure:
A new acquisition?
 
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,197
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
Well now you can fix it and then ride it and if you think it is really good we can all make one from the original plans. :)
 
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,197
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
I hope your ride today went well (not on the Flevo I understand... as it needs a lot of "fettling" first).
You will certainly be able to put the "Flevo-ghost" to rest once you have had a chance to ride one and get used to it.
I didn't think the fibreglass box looked too shabby (YMMV). That is a VERY BIG chainring. What's the GI on the thing?
Tyres & tubes are no problem as Popshot says, so we are all eagerly awaiting your first crash ride report.
That seat is c.19"/20" off the deck so you are well out of the weeds on that mate.
IF you like the "feel" of it handling-wise then you can change rims for CR18's and put a nice Nuvinci 330/360/380 in there with middle range chainring for some easy riding.
So there you are all in one fell-swoop with a trike with both front & rear suspension.
Plenty of room on that back-end for a decent luggage-rack/covered box for touring too!
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Popshot & DannyC thanks for your comments - suggestions.

In no particular order.

438 x 20 rims [ listed as Dutch juvenile ] can't tyres or tubes being available for them - Only on the back apparently :LOL: front according to tyre is a 451
old school wood valve inner tubes -
have allowed air in and maybe even holding it - we shall see
rim dynamo -
removed may/may not work wiring getting in way and so tidied out of way
Magura hydraulic rim brake -
works but may cause problems - see later *
Front hub 2 x 6 with hub brake
- correction Sachs orbit 2 x 6 - possibly faulty as it is either very hard to pedal or spins with no drive ? see later *
front ring 62T -
way to high a gearing - see later *
box
lights -
removed possibly don't work getting in way - untidy wiring etc
stand -
used all the time else it falls over - my prototype does NOT !
more elastomer's than you can shake a stick at
2 handle bar positions -
see later *

* Ok I suppose this is ' see later '
I first tried the bars below the seat , the cables seemed long enough for that , could not get going at all.
Decided that I was wasting my time chasing that as I knew I wanted the bars on the steering part and so move them up there , bit of a chore as you have to split the trike to do that and it is tricky to get back together if you are on your own.
The bars seem the wrong shape and not wide enough to be on the steering part , I fit them to try and make the brake levers be in the right place - failed miserably.
Bell and 2x changer hard up under thighs and bars not wide enough to get hands under and use brakes etc.
I added some straight bars in the under seat position and found I could not reach them either !

So we need to step away from this and re-group......

I did manage 14 ft but a huge struggle.

The main reason seems to be I have no low gears to pedal in ? see above Sachs 2 x 6.
So I can change out the 62T front ring for a MTB triple and put the chain on the 28T , that will help.
Changing the front wheel is not easy or quick ?
If a 406mm has the rim in a different place to the 451mm the Magura front brake may not have enough adjustment to meet the rim.
Also unless the 406mm comes with a hub brake and the above is true we will then have no brakes at all !
Yes I have a Nexus 7 with hub brake however that does not rate as ' quick ' as there is nother present to hold the brake reaction arm and the hub end changer may not fit in space available

The rear wheels are held on with M8 bolts ? which stops an easy swap out to SA hub brakes ?

So the handlebars I think I need to remove all the controls and start again , bit tricky as the Magura's are hydraulic and so not simply a matter or removing a cable.

So off to peruse some pictures to see how to do the bars and other useful stuff.

Sounds very much like mine , however my rear box is much smaller

Mine seems to build as per the paper trike plans , however they have no date on them 1995 was mentioned on another site so may be 26+ years old ?

all for now Paul


 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Ok got 30 mins on it.

removed all controls cables and levers , found a 36T - 24T front ring idea for learning with.

Next up is to remove 62T - chain and front wheel and see if a 406 has the rim in the same place as the original 451 I could still run into problems as the early Magura's are hard to get working when the tyre is wider than the rim and I have no 1.5" or smaller tyres.

Paul
 
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,197
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
If a 406mm has the rim in a different place to the 451mm the Magura front brake may not have enough adjustment to meet the rim.
The Sunringle Cr18 rim are available in a 451 size.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
The Sunringle Cr18 rim are available in a 451 size.
Nah , not going down that path of having 1 wheel on all the stuff I own a different size to the rest.

Especially as I have such a large stash of 406mm.

A slightly less easy route is to adopt the new 24" rear end I have built to bolt on in place of it's current rear axle then I would have 2 SA drum brakes ? a direction I will probably go in when I can ride it anyway ?

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Ok another afternoon of Flevo frustration.

Started trying to get the 62T ring and cranks off , shifted the non ring side after I realised the bolts were M8 so 13mm spanner WHY ?
Unable to shift ring side at all and BB mounted in a plastic housing , got housing off to go for a vice mount when I realised the ring was on a 5 leg spider, I was aiming for a MTB 28T 38T 48T however I had found a nice twin with a 32T again 5 bolt spider but different hole diameter. Found a matching one in a 42T and guard so managed to wriggle that off/on.

Got some fixed bars under the seat for balance purposes , and front bars had 4 positions
2 pointing forwards up or down
2 to rear up or down

So rear and down work , clear of thighs etc and got Magura brake lever on the left side and wanted a 6 speed changer on the right , so one brake and one gear selector.. never happened !

Shortened chain and found the hub does not like to run backwards and seems to lock up.
I remembered an old SA trick of carrying a pin so you could pull the toggle chain out when the cable snaps insert pin and low and behold we have low gear. Tried same with Orbit and I seemed to have a lower gear got Magura brake on and working and though 12ft across the lawn is a possibility when I discovered the whole hub is locked up and the chain will go neither forwards or backwards sh*t.
Except of course the wheel spins freely , so deciding that this happening again would not be good anywhere so hub has been condemned along with 451 wheel [ about time I say ]

So that is the last second I spend on the current front wheel , tomorrow I will try and get a 406 6 speed in there , will the Magura work not sure.

Paul
 
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
3,197
Location
South Benfleet, Essex, England, UK
Ok another afternoon of Flevo frustration.

Started trying to get the 62T ring and cranks off , shifted the non ring side after I realised the bolts were M8 so 13mm spanner WHY ?
Unable to shift ring side at all and BB mounted in a plastic housing , got housing off to go for a vice mount when I realised the ring was on a 5 leg spider, I was aiming for a MTB 28T 38T 48T however I had found a nice twin with a 32T again 5 bolt spider but different hole diameter. Found a matching one in a 42T and guard so managed to wriggle that off/on.

Got some fixed bars under the seat for balance purposes , and front bars had 4 positions
2 pointing forwards up or down
2 to rear up or down

So rear and down work , clear of thighs etc and got Magura brake lever on the left side and wanted a 6 speed changer on the right , so one brake and one gear selector.. never happened !

Shortened chain and found the hub does not like to run backwards and seems to lock up.
I remembered an old SA trick of carrying a pin so you could pull the toggle chain out when the cable snaps insert pin and low and behold we have low gear. Tried same with Orbit and I seemed to have a lower gear got Magura brake on and working and though 12ft across the lawn is a possibility when I discovered the whole hub is locked up and the chain will go neither forwards or backwards sh*t.
Except of course the wheel spins freely , so deciding that this happening again would not be good anywhere so hub has been condemned along with 451 wheel [ about time I say ]

So that is the last second I spend on the current front wheel , tomorrow I will try and get a 406 6 speed in there , will the Magura work not sure.

Paul
Is the hub like a duo-matic that changes its internal planetary gears up/down on reverse pedaling?
My dad had a bike with that feature, he was very impressed with it.
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Is the hub like a duo-matic that changes its internal planetary gears up/down on reverse pedaling?
My dad had a bike with that feature, he was very impressed with it.
No it is about as complicated as it can get :-
It has a chain activated 2 speed IGH [ like a 2 speed SA 3 speed hub ]
It has a hub brake
It has a 6 speed non-indexing cassette

Removing the wheel removes :-
100% of the 2 speed [ think of this as a 2 ring crank set ]
50% of the braking
100% of the 6 speed cassette



Allegedly it is fairly simple inside with few moving parts and maybe just needs a good clean and re-oiling..
However :-
a) I don't want a 451 wheel [ no matter how successful it may be in service ]
b) i don't want to take it apart - I want to ride this trike Saturday or Sunday at the latest
c) There are no service parts available

Paul
 
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,263
Location
Nottinghamshire England
Hi all

I have this :- almost finished 24" track with 20" wheels:-


If I make it bolt onto here :-



yes not a quick fix for Saturday or Sunday , it will give me 2 rear brakes so de-cluttering the front end and allowing ANY 406 rear wheel to be used irrespective of whether it has a integral brake or not AND the SA drums are much easier to service than a 25+ year old Magura [ which if left on will make front wheel removal a nightmare as the Magura only only works if the tyre is the same width as the rim.


However once done it is a permanent fix with new parts and something that I would do further down the line anyway ?

Paul
 
Top