Sort of tilting trike

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I watched Gary Solomon tonight and they talked with the designer of this trike.
It is a very simple design of a tilting trike that levels himself while riding.
You tilt as your steer, so it is always a combination.


It is actually a simple design that is easy to build yourself. Also by choosing the angle of the center point of the front arm, you can make how it reacts.
As I have seen the design, the wheelbase it's a bit longer, but as you make a turn, the inner wheel comes to the center and the other wheel goes a bit to the front.

He talked about suspension and he wanted to ad one under the seat. Nog that the seat has suspension, but the frame in that position.

The trike seems to be very stable.

Got more info is here the website and the video.

Website

 
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The issue with tilt-steering is the fixed relationship between tilt and steer. It's only ever right at one speed only for any given corner. At any other speed you'll experience either some of the normal outward force any regular trike will experience if going faster or you'll find yourself being pulled to the floor on the inside if going slower. Unfortunately the thing you'd normally brace against for such forces (ie the bars) are also moving meaning it's hard to use them as a brace without unwanted extra input into the tilt-steer mechanism. I've never ridden one or built one so maybe the issue isn't critical but it's certainly a compromise.
Perhaps with an extra range of motion given to the bars, say fore and aft, some form of control of the relationship between tilt and steer could be controlled (altering the angle of the pivot) though I'm struggling to envisage any mechanism that would feel remotely as instinctive as simply steering.
 
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I see what you mean and I agree with you. But it depends also on the use.

Did you look ad the video? He explains surten parts. I must look it again, because I was sometimes to focussed ad the trike and his 3D printer, that I missed a few parts.

What me interests in the design, is how simple it is and that you can tune the wheel angles after wards. Also you can design it, so it tilts less, but puts the wheels more under an angle.
I am hoi g to put it in fusion360 to make a model and probably print several models.

It isn't a trike that I build in the short term, but I am thinking of building one.
But first will my 3D printer, quad extension for my trike and caravan trailer come.
 
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At 1.5 hours and the "paid promotion" disclaimer I gave the video a miss. It's easy enough to see it's function from the pic. It's a std tilt-steer with inclined pivot but with the addition of a mechanism to also tilt the front wheels.
The front wheel tilt mechanism adds nothing to the turning ability but does make extra space for the rider's legs by getting the inside wheel to tilt out of the way somewhat.
It'd be interesting to see exactly how such a fixed tilt and steer relationship works in practice but not interesting enough for me to build one. If you check my post in the cable steering thread it may give you a way to break that fixed relationship between tilt and steer though a base such as this wouldn't be my first choice to employ cable steering on - I'd start with a different tilt system on a tadpole.
 
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So you didn't watch the interview. That is not a payed interview and you can skip all the parts that aren't about the trike. It's wat I do with his video's. Those sponsored parts and the boring talks about a new trail in the USA, aren't interesting for me.

I looked ad other tilting systems and your posts about it. As first I was willing to build one. Forts without suspension and than with to end up without again. I am still looking ad one design that is simple and has independent steering. Tank steering. It's also a simple construction, but you need speed to stay level. With this system, you don't need speed to stay level of a lock system.

I put it in cad and see what it does.
The nice thing is, is that I can always change it to the other tilting system, without the need of changing a lot.
 
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If I were at it again I'd start from the basic principle I used on the Mk2 tilter. ie Tilt gives zero steering input and keep the two functions as separate as possible. I'd not start with the functions linked and then see if I could un-link them. On a Mk3 tilter I'd remove the wishbones, completely turn it upside down, and go for a big upper arm and simple linkage bottom to control the tilt. I'd do away with the suspension units as it's all but impossible to make a steering system that doesn't steer with suspension movement. With reference to these...





I'd move to this...



Essentially the same system but upside down. The wishbones are replaced with a large upper member and a simple rod ended link at the bottom to enable the wheel tilt. I'd upside down the whole system to bring the handlebar pivot closer to my backside. Doing this reduces the amount the bars come in at you as you lift up / push down on them to tilt. This is very important as the bars coming towards you are a limiting factor and the bar pivot to backside distance must be as small as possible.

It's the forgoing of suspension that makes a tilter possible if you want the ability to control lean via a mechanism. Going upside down means suspension has to be forgone anyway. There's just to much variation when you add suspension into the mix for steering linkages to cope with. The only reason the steering link went ahead of the axle on the Mk2 was the tilting left zero room for it behind.

There is always the self-balanced option path to go down which may open other options up or shut some down. It's not a path I'd do again (I tried this with the MK1). Many people have made things I wouldn't and it doesn't necassarily make them wrong. As I intimated above perhaps a cable steered tilter is doable powered by a nuvinci shifter. There's only so many ways you can move a bar mechanism (up / down and fore / aft in my example) and a twist cable adds another potential control function.
 
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I looked ad that design a lot and it replaced other designs I had seen before and had in mind. This because of the steering that adapts to the angle and doesn't change. There are other solutions, but this gave me the feeling that I could use the steering also to help me ballance. I don't know if this is the case, but it looks like that to me.

I looked ad the suspension and I came to the conclusion that, that isn't something I want on it.
I looked ad a trike with front suspension, not tilting and as I see the ones that use it, most hang in the corner the other way. Also do they ad a lot of weight and the goal was, to build more a race trike.

I looked ad Alan Maurer's trike, but I think that he steers also by tilting it. Edit: steering is like tank steering. Braking seems to have influence on the steering also.
I looked ad it and I wanted to go for something similar, but with separate steering.
But I was afraid that as I make it to low, as what I want, the balancing will be a problem as I separated it.
Therefor she I had seen this trike where he goes level as he rides and how simple it was with the option to make if you want to tilt or limited tilt and only let the front wheels tilt more, it looked as a good solution to me.
But I see your point. It is nice ad a surten speed, but as you separate steering and tilting, it will be good ad different speeds.

I was thinking of this and that is without the steering drawn into it. Just a sketch.

The steering would hand with you, so stays parallel to the wheels. Tank steering.
But I was afraid that, that way, I couldn't use it to balance and lean to a side.
 
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Alan's has separate steering.
Alan Maurer's was/is the gold standard of tilting trikes and I searched in vain for good videos and info on it before the MK2. I never came across that video though and it'd have made a substantial difference to how I'd have tackled it. It appears this video was posted shortly after I made mine. It is a better executed and simpler version of any system ever invented. The pivot for the main tube is horizontal so there is completely separate tilting to steering. The swing of the main chassis member moves the rods that moves the front tilting mechanism and like mine the bars are lift up / push down to tilt and fore / aft to steer. Alan's beats mine in that the bars don't move towards you as you lean making the bars a tight fit to the body. His bars are completely stationary bar the fore / aft steering so there's more room to swing your body.

The tilting effect only



The steering effect



The silver ends to the axle boom are free to rotate. This effectively gives the option to change the caster. It's the ability to change the caster that allows this to steer. The bars both either go forward together or back together. The two silver bits at the ends of the main axle tube are linked through the tube so the both swivel together or not at all.. When the upright is vertical the lean induces no steering at all. The more the upright is away from vertical the more a given amount of lean will steer. Steering is completely separate from leaning with the exception that it can't steer at all without leaning which is of no importance. For any given corner you set the lean that is required for the speed you are going by pulling up /pushing down on the immovable bars and then you add in the amount of steering needed for that corner by pushing forward or pulling back on the bars and thus altering caster which equals steering due to the lean. Brilliant!!!

It's taken me until now to see that the steering works via caster as I could never get a good view of it in other pictures and videos. It may feel a little odd in that the steering isn't tank like at all but both bars go forward or backward together but obviously Alan had no issues with learning it. It'll even self-centre when going straight by pushing the bars forward slightly you have caster.

If anyone ever wants to make a tilting tadpole this is the one to copy.
 
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I just watched the complete video to see how he did his steering and I came to the same.
By pushing forward or pulling, you move left or right.
Now I also understand why by breaking, had influence on the steering.
That was the only negative point on it, what I found in text. It was hard to find images. So I thought that it was conventional tank steering.

This was after looking around, the one that I wanted to build, but with tank steering. But I never had clear pictures from the steering and how I wanted to do it, would be way more complicated.
I would only change one thing. Put one bar on top and other ad bottom. So push and pull, what makes that you don't have to think. Pull left is going left, pull right is going right.
It is simple to change it.
I like this design and as I read and hear him talk in the video, than it is clear tgst he ballance himself with the steering and that as he rolls, it starts to ballance.

I think that the bottom braces have limited influence as it rotates.

This is definitely a design to look further into and probably build.

I found this video yesterday. I had seen the other one where he races and dome images of the blue version. That one is more streamlined and probably has the changes where he talks about.
 
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I thought it had normal tanksteering and that, that was influenced by breaking.

Now am I thinking to change the steering a bit and use normal tank steering. That has no problems as you break. But I also like this design. Maybe not the best for as you need to break fast, but from the other side, I don't break hard now either. Only don't use the brakes in the corners.

Other thing is, is that with normal tanksteering, you don't need to lean to make a corner. But this system makes that it is more stable.

So it has different points where I will look ad and must make choices in.

Now is this trike, bak on the top of my tilting trike list.
As I see his construction and what he used, it isn't that complicated.
I made a mistake with how it steers in the previous post. Pushing forward makes that it is straight and probably by pulling it back, makes that it steers in the direction you lean.
 
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It could be designed with the steering reversed so it becomes pull to steer, push to straighten and introduce a stop at the vertical so heavy braking would have you pushing the bars for bracing and straightening rather than turning if unable to maintain the bars position
 
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It could be designed with the steering reversed so it becomes pull to steer, push to straighten and introduce a stop at the vertical so heavy braking would have you pushing the bars for bracing and straightening rather than turning if unable to maintain the bars position
Yes it is pull to steer and push to straighten. On straight, breaking is no problem, but it has influence in corners. But the more I think about that, the lesser of a problem that is. I don't break with my front breaks in corners and as I do, it is very limited.

I am going to use his design and make my own version in 3D in Fusion 360.
Lock ad 45 degree angle is I think good to start with.
I will use his latest design for the steering. He lowered the arms so he could use the steering better for leaning.
I like what he did with the tube on the Bleu one. He gave it a whing shape.

Ad the bottom, he can adjust the bottom arms to put them straight to fine tune it, but also put a base angle as he wants more steering.
It isn't really needed, but it is good to have.
 
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After reading the comments and some other websites info about the trike, i noticed that pulling is puting the wheels straigt and pusing for steering.
You need to pull it straight for the straight line, else it can start to wobble. The braking problem seems to be a big problem, because it puls the handles forward and makes the trike unstable.

I placed a base model in cad and looked ad it, if i could change it or solve it.
You can ad a lock on the rotation as you brake, but that means that you need to ad on both sides a double break system.
An other option is, to change the design a bit and go for regular steering and use that with the steering. So you have the same steering handle bars, but tanksteering system in the front. that solves the problem and as i look ad the design, there is enough space to change it to that and keep the rest of the design the same.
 
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There is no facility in Maurer's uprights to pivot to steer. You will need a complete redesign of the uprights. You'll then run into the problem of the steering arm out from the upright loosing line of sight to the handlebar as it tilts and turns. The wheel and axle tube will all get in the way to some extent and all want the same space.
Maurers system requires the steering rods to move only in one plane but steering it conventionally requires much more movement and therefore space. Conventional steering also requires a link between the two wheels which also requires an extraordinary amount of space to accommodate not just the steering but also the tilt function. Again this link moves largely in one plane on a std trike but needs much more room here. I suspect you'll struggle to find ways to avoid things hitting though your good cad skills will certainly help here. I'm not suggesting it's impossible - just awkward.
 
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Well the uprights are the easy part. The tanksteering also and for the link between the wheels is space and else I can create it with some miner changes. But those things aren't going to be the problem.
I don't know if you looked ad the video ad the angles of the wheels by turning. But they look to be parallel in angle as he tilts and as he turns. It seems that he has no akkerman.
Is that not needed with a tilting trike? Also do I need to ad some camber to it? I know that they don't have to point to the center of the wheel where it hits the ground, but I think that it needs some camber.

I started with his design, to see what the wheels will do. I made a base frame, so I can make tomorrow the rest of it and move it arround, to see what angles I get and what the wheels do in a corner.
 
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