Tilter mk3

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Experience is a great asset but you need to be able to articulate it if it is to benefit others.
A paragraph of experience is worth a book of theory , especially in such a misunderstood and limited field with few acceptable examples.

You must be close to your first ride ?

Paul
 
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The trikes whpthomas builds are nice and there are several version riding around, using that system.
Emiel

Are any of the builds documented on the web ?

Paul
 
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Emiel

Are any of the builds documented on the web ?

Paul
I don't know, I never looked ad that.
But he placed his designs on his website.
It is a similar system as DannyC uses, but then with the linkiges horizontal instead of vertical.
The tilting velomobile is doing the same and it ads a break, so you can lock it as you stand still.
It needs that, because you can't place your feed on the ground.

They width of the rear doesn't really matter. You can make it wider so you can put something in between like luggage.
 
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Thomas was very particular in saying it only worked within a narrow envelope fell over if tilted to much when stationary and did not tolerate higher seat and narrower track so a very fickle beast to build I think.

The Italian concurred with this saying it did not work well until he changed from 24" to 20" wheels , most odd when you think about it.

Paul
 
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A paragraph of experience is worth a book of theory , especially in such a misunderstood and limited field with few acceptable examples.

You must be close to your first ride ?

Paul
Not always Paul, but I understand what you mean.
But it is also something personal. Take over and under steer on a car. The one likes over steer, where the other lives under steer. As someone that loves over steer, drives a car with under steer, that person will see that as a problem.

The fact is, is that there is a problem with breaking in the corners. But it depends on the one that rides, how big of a problem it really is.
 
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Thomas was very particular in saying it only worked within a narrow envelope fell over if tilted to much when stationary and did not tolerate higher seat and narrower track so a very fickle beast to build I think.

The Italian concurred with this saying it did not work well until he changed from 24" to 20" wheels , most odd when you think about it.

Paul
With the wheel size I can understand the balance problem. But seat hight I would expect that higher is better.
 
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A paragraph of experience is worth a book of theory , especially in such a misunderstood and limited field with few acceptable examples.

You must be close to your first ride ?

Paul
I'm still awaiting the seat which is still stuck in central Poland! I'm also still pondering on motorising it or not and if so whether the cheaper wheel option or the more expensive mid drive one. I'll probably be mainly working on the other project this weekend due to those.

The thing with experience is it's always 100% great for your own benefit as you always know what you mean but it's of no use to others if you don't or can't put that experience into useful words. The example relating to Alan's design was factually the opposite of reality and as such those words can actively hinder others who assume from their experience that the writer must know what they are on about and thus get mislead. It could easily have been simple muddle from him as we all have those moments on our own list of contributions. I expect some of my own posts will contain factual errors too.
 
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With the wheel size I can understand the balance problem. But seat hight I would expect that higher is better.
It took me more time than it should to understand that last point from some of your previous posts on the same subject but I now understand you are correct in that getting that weight up high ought to help balance the machine.
 
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It took me more time than it should to understand that last point from some of your previous posts on the same subject but I now understand you are correct in that getting that weight up high ought to help balance the machine.
I had the same with Paul's post where he mentioned that a higer seat does not work on Alan's design.
But it all has to do with speed and amount of tilt.
With a 2 wheeler, you will tilt less ad low speed in a corner. But with Alan's design, you need to tilt ad a surten angle and it doesn't mater how fast or slow you go, that angle is set.
So speed decides how hard it is to ho back upright and don't drop further.
With a higher seat, you will hang more to the inside, so with low speeds, you will get the falling effect.
With a low seat, you will hang over way less.

The wheels is an other thing. Bigger wheels need to tilt more, to get the same turning circle as a smaller wheel. This will make that your speed needs to be higher than with a smaller wheel.

Probably he used the mount in the middle from the lower booms, to set it up in the amount of tilt he needed to steer. That is probably why he could move it forward and backwards.
I am not surten, but something you can play with to see what got effect it has.

Tilt and steering are linked, but by linking the tilt to the steering and not to the speed, it makes that you need to tide ad a minimum speed to go trough corners. The faster you go, the bigger and higher seat you can mount. As you hi slow, lower and smaller wheels are better. Overall smaller and lower is better, even with higher speeds. It is a trike to ho fast with and nog slow.
 
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Yes to both of you ;) perception can be skewed depending on where you are coming from.

Maybe if I had only ridden a 2 wheeler I would be very happy with my tilter.
Because I have ridden the Python many miles I want a Python that tilts , that does not really make any sense !

Some French man has built a beautiful Mosquito clone and has given up with it because it lifts a inner wheel and after that it rolls very quickly.
He also reported it being strange to be riding in a straight line with it being tilted , something I have experienced however on mine I can correct that [ with the bars on the non-tilting part ] without having to steer.

delta mosquito

keep at it , we plough a lonely furrow sometimes...

Paul
 
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Beautiful woodwork on that. What a shame. It looks like a case of simply too high for the width given the system of lean used. A lot of Mosquitos out there, most following the original non-crossed design are good examples copying and tweeking others designs without really understanding the theory behind it and the limitations that design has.
 
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The problem with the tilting trikes that tilt to stear, is that on an angled road, you are still sitting angled to go straight.

The mosquito is known for rolling, that is why they make the rear wider.
Better is, to go for the cross design.
But just as Popshot says, most don't know why it happens, or just see it and build it with their own do. Ensions, without understanding the angles and the width.
Not the right angle and you have a very big or a very small turning circle.
To yarrow and you roll in every corner.
And on roads that are on an angle, you can't sit straight, because than you steer.

With some changes, you can make that it goes straight as you tilt, but than you also need a separate steering in the front.
 
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Experience is a great asset but you need to be able to articulate it if it is to benefit others.
I think that is what Paul is trying to do in his tilting python thread. "This worked, that didn't" kind of thing.
 
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I've found a fundamental issue in my design. The front wheel axle is above the pivot for the wheel meaning I'm lifting the front as I add steering. Given my own generous proportions it means I have to lift a lot of weight to add steering. The axle needs to be, ideally, level with the pivot which creates some design requirements to avoid one bolt passing through another at right angles. Not quite a schoolboy error but I should have seen it sooner. Time for some redesigning and reworking.

 
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I've found a fundamental issue in my design. The front wheel axle is above the pivot for the wheel meaning I'm lifting the front as I add steering. Given my own generous proportions it means I have to lift a lot of weight to add steering. The axle needs to be, ideally, level with the pivot which creates some design requirements to avoid one bolt passing through another at right angles. Not quite a schoolboy error but I should have seen it sooner. Time for some redesigning and reworking.

Don't you just hate it when that kind of stuff happens? Good luck with the changes, at least it appears to be minimal rework. :)
 
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It can always be worse. As you say an easy fix. My 16mm drill has again died in service so I await another to do the other side. It's added 38mm to the width which I could reclaim by cutting the two main crossbeams down but probably won't. I was going to move the lower mount inwards by 19mm, the same as the top mount has moved but thought better of it. A difference is needed between the top and the lower pivots with the lower arms combined being less than the distance between the top pivots. The reason is to make the inner wheel lean more. It leaned a bit too much more IMO so this change will half that extra lean on the inner. I expect that'll mean it's now slightly worse off at lower speed and better off at high but the proof of that will be evident later. My Polish seat has STILL not arrived with UPS taking 6 weeks to move it from Poland to the south of England so far. I have a mesh seat if all else fails but really wanted the Rocek one. The bars on this will need to be high enough for the seat and some portion of my thighs to slide under as I tilt and with this one having me nearer the front axle than Alan's I suspect my bar mounts will need to raise up before going backwards. I can get a fibreglass seat lower which will help here - another reason for wanting the originally planned seat.

One side fixed. I'll swap the current nylock for an aerotight so I can tack it in place with no plastic to melt.

 
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Good recovery.

If you ask DannyC nicely he may lend you the Mk1 Tilt-o-meter so we can have a bragging contest about the amount of tilt we have achieved.

So far it goes like this ?
paul - tilter no Tilt-o-meter
DannyC no tilter but Tilt-o-meter
Popshot Mk2 Tilter no Tilt-o-meter
A.n.Other not yet joined :whistle:

So no clear winner yet

paul
 
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Are you refering to a measurement whilst riding? This machine hits the stops at 32 degrees though I could increase that if needed. I'll gladly submit to a tilt off challenge when complete.
 
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Good recovery.

If you ask DannyC nicely he may lend you the Mk1 Tilt-o-meter so we can have a bragging contest about the amount of tilt we have achieved.

So far it goes like this ?
paul - tilter no Tilt-o-meter
DannyC no tilter but Tilt-o-meter
Popshot Mk2 Tilter no Tilt-o-meter
A.n.Other not yet joined :whistle:

So no clear winner yet

paul
Now you boys all remember what you were told back in them long-ago "work" days.
"If you can't measure it, you can't manage it." I rest my case. ;)

But Paul raises a valid point. Yes I have stopped the development on my tilter (I did not like the direction it was leaning going) and the twisted-chain and I were never going to be friends I felt.

Family building/construction/landscaping stuff and upheavals have got in the way of me having any trike-building fun so I have spent some time on "at my desk" fun instead. :)
I shall get back to trike-stuff soon enough. Yes the Tilt-O-Meter seems to work on the desk in breadboard mode; there is no deployable version as yet.
 
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Are you refering to a measurement whilst riding? This machine hits the stops at 32 degrees though I could increase that if needed. I'll gladly submit to a tilt off challenge when complete.
yep recording rides in a file for all to see.

I am sure you will find 32' is frightening without needing to increase it 😁

Paul
 
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