Tilter mk3

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Oct 19, 2012
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First ride. Apologies for the video quality - it's not my strong point. Click to 15 seconds before I appear.


At least it proves concept - not that it needed proving as Alan had already done it.

First thoughts...
Firstly I can't use the largest rear cog as it's too close to the motor and the derailleur hits it. Not the end of the world but annoying. The marks are from just a handful of yards. I could space the freewheel off slightly but I'm already at max on the axle width so will likely have to suck it up and run just 9 cogs.





Secondly it has the turning circle of an oil tanker. This will be fine on an open road but useless navigating tight spaces. Turning on a residential road is a three point turn or 5 if you cock it up but reversing is easy enough. This would be a major issue for an every day use vehicle. For a Sunday day out much less so to the point of being little problem.
Thirdly, it's actually quite nice to ride. The steering takes some thought to use though I expect that to become less mental effort as I get used to it. Tilting is easy down either way and easy back up by lifting on one bar whilst pushing down on the other. From this initial impression this is the best tilter I've built and I look forward to trying some fast corners.
Fourthly the brakes are very powerful. Those cheap Chinese red calipers with ceramic pads are highly recommended. I'm glad I swapped the linkages over from Alan's trike to brace by pushing and would recommend anyone following to do the same. The rear brake will likely be very much used on this because of this design aspect of the front brakes rotating the caster.
Fifthly I can get the trike to stand on it's own by the expedient of tightening the bolts that pivot the front wheels. A little friction goes a long way without getting in the way of tilting it when required. Whether this will need regular re-tightening to keep this feature I know not yet but it's nice to have.
Sixthly, stainless is a nice material if you can stand the loss of many drill bits.

Not quite finished but I can see the finish line.



 
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Popshot

Bet your pleased , short snagging list so far well done that man !

Paul
 
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Thank-you. Yes, I'm very happy how this is turning out. I can even get on and off it withiut risking limb or pride and I couldn't say that about the last tilter.

One other issue that's come to light is the chain guide on the rear pulleys can scrape the floor on high tilt. I've room to grind some excess metal off so will do.
 
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One other issue that's come to light is the chain guide on the rear pulleys can scrape the floor on high tilt.
Yes it's bazaar the things that are no longer ' satisfactory ' when you start tilting ?

Mine the flag bangs on the rear lights that are fastened to the back of the tilting seat...

At extreme tilt angles combined with extreme steering input the bars can get trapped under the seat !
luckily this is at very low speed and I just have to ease off the tilt a bit.

Still it is all part of the experience when you are riding on the edge of the envelope as it were.

Interesting to see what crops up when you get a few miles on it.

Tilt#2 only went pear shaped @ 72 miles , although to be honest there were plenty of clues before that , my ' stubborn streak ' was hoping I would have some sort of Zen riding moment and become ' one ' with the machine before I came a cropper., on reflection not a sound policy !

Paul
 
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Greetings Popshot.
Your build is coming together nicely. It seems you've made improvements to an already proven design. I remember the first video of Alan's tilter racing around and passing non-tilters on the sharp corners. And the Tiger trike video is very impressive! You should be in for some great fun, especially with the added e-assist. I look forward to following your progress on this build.
Cheers
 
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Secondly it has the turning circle of an oil tanker. This will be fine on an open road but useless navigating tight spaces. Turning on a residential road is a three point turn or 5 if you cock it up but reversing is easy enough. This would be a major issue for an every day use vehicle. For a Sunday day out much less so to the point of being little problem.

Not quite finished but I can see the finish line.
Is this an inherent function of the steering itself or a limitation of having side stick steering ?

Paul
 
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It's an inherent function of the system. The only way you could improve it is to keep the trike as short as possible and any improvement that gives is marginal anyway.
 
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I ordered two "panniers" and got just one delivered! The seller though, has been good in correcting the mistake and has another in the post plus he's refunded me for one. I've got somewhere towards making a mounting for them. I made 4 brass adapters with a M10 on the outside and a M6 inside thread. I love working in brass as it makes lovely gold swarf on the lathe and I think I'm rich. :)These sit between the two halves of each case to mount to the two tubes. This still allows the opening half to open. Because these holes were the means of locking the cases I now use a M6 security torx bolt as basic security on the basis nobody walks around with one of those. I'm waiting on some tapered washers to sit either side of the plastic holes to make a flush joint. Until the other case arrives I'm a bit stuck to make much more progress on the mounts but can at least have a go at cutting the inner foam for the battery and controller to sit in.







 
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Close to finished. The pannier mounts still need some work to attach to the rack and like a grade B chimp I've put the PAS sensor on back to front! I need to realign the front mech post too as I have it slightly off line. Not a biggie just a slice, tap and re-weld.



 
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Mar 12, 2022
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First of all. You got a really nice and clean build!

What wheelbase do you have and what's your maximum steering angle?
I am curious because I am planning and I'll have a larger wheelbase than you do ...
It should be possible to turn around on a normal street by reversing once.
 
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Thanks.

Wheelbase 124cm
Track 94cm
Turn 25 deg
Lean 31 deg

I could shave 6 or 7cm off the wheelbase and I could shave 5cm or so off the width but anything I take off there moves the levers inwards. More svelte persons than my porcine like figure could save more width. I don't see how you could get more turn as it's limited by the physics of the system unless you get more lean. I think with practice a three point turn should be doable in most streets.

Getting more lean means increasing the gap between the front axle and the main beam passing below. This in itself is easy BUT the issue then becomes one of axle control. The longer the bolts between the axle and beam the more the whole front axle could twist as a unit against the main beam. This twisting potential will rise exponentially as you increase the bolt length. I'm using 8.8 M12 bolts with very little bolt showing that's not stuck inside the female rod ends and I think I'm already using the minimum needed to control this. Going longer for more lean would mean a step to to m14 or larger (I'd opt for m16) imo and that's a big change at this point in the build so Im sticking with what I have but would suggest this as an area for thought for anyone doing anything similar.
 
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I tried the brake sensors today and whilst they worked the pitiful mounting method of sticky tape and glue left me with zero confidence they would continue to work so I have left them off. If I leave them on and they come loose the motor won't work so it's more reliable to leave them off and suffer the 1/2 second run on that the motor performs.
 
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Do you not have brake-levers with in-built switches?
I have just been going through this pain and have had to resort to expensive hydraulic brake switches rather than the sticky hall-sensors & magnets.
My Bafang kit and drum/cabled-disc creations worked fine withthe switch enabled brake-levers.
 
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I'm running the two front brakes off one lever so have a double pull. I'm doing that so I can have a rear brake because of the front brakes spinning the wheels with the free to caster steering. Because I value symmetry I run a double pull on the rear too purely so the levers look the same. That leaves me with the sensors rather than the typical switched levers. I have a couple of switched levers somewhere. Maybe I can extract the switches and hack them into the double pulls.
 
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Jun 16, 2021
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i could you try to move the pivot closer to the wheel center? the wheel would take less space to turn, gaining you a few precious degrees, and also reduce that steering lift on the inside wheel.

it looks doable, a C bracket shaped knuckle that wraps around the disk and mount the joints there, before and after the disk. given the level of this build it's well into your skillset.
i would also consider wrist pads.

heck of a build!
 
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Not familiar with wrist pads!

I understand your point about getting pivot as close as possible to the axle but you can't mount before the disc. The disc is hard mounted to the wheel and the axle beam needs to mount to the actual axle bolt or the wheel won't rotate. Or have I missed your point?
 
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Partially. You can go to 140mm disks with no worries, but it wasnt about replacing the disks, more about making a knuckle that wraps around them, much like the sd1 vitesse's and some german cars. I believe honda did one that wraps around the wheel to keep the upper a arm clear off the axles. Relocating the disks would be a major machining nightmare.
 
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Can you draw a picture? I don't understand why you'd want anything the other side of the disc. There's nothing there to mount anything to.
 
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