VK3CKC's eLecTricks Trike Design and Build.

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That is great. I am looking on where I want to mount my phone and a battery so I can charge my phone. But this is several levels higher.
How is it mounted on your frame?
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
How is it mounted on your frame?
I will get a picture for you later today. Currently 8.50am here. All I have is a bolt (so that it is removable whenever) that fixes the lower ends of the frame to the front wheel arms, just in from the kingpins. Of course, the flat face of the frame does not match the angle of the trike frame so I had to come up with how I was going to ensure that the faces bolted together. It is a short length of square tube sliced end wise to make two angled fittings - one in front of the wheel arm and one behind. The bolts go through the dashboard frame, one half of the fitting, the wheel arm, and the second half of the fitting. Easier to show in a pic than words. As I said, a picture later today.
 
Joined
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
Here is the first image of two. Note that it is only a rough, temporary mount to my Warrior for testing components for later incorporation, neatly, into my new trike. By the time I get to fitting accessories to the new trike, everything should e road tested and approved. That's the plan anyway.



This is a view of the left hand side mounting of the dashboard frame.


This image is a top view of the right hand side mounting bracket parts. Note that the two parts offset the angle of the front wheel arms. As you can see, I didn't spend too much time in getting the angles perfect although any discrepancies may not show up too much. The end result is a very firm mounting with no noticeable vibration in use.
The new trike doesn't have the same type of wheel arms, will also have a velomobile body and the dashboard fitting will be completely different.
I hope the images help you understand how I did it. The same process should be suitable for round wheel arms.
 
Joined
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
Yes, I guess it is not that different and I have found the frame handy for hanging onto at times. It hasn't really changed my mount and dismount much at all. I just have to be a little more conscious of where I put my feet when getting on. The dashboard frame does come in handy when lowering myself onto the seat. Theturn indicators are more than a little reassuring when riding in traffic. Just realised I haven't hooked up the brake light switches yet. It's all ready to connect the switches to the Arduino micro-controller that runs all the LED lights except the headlight.
 
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Messages
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I hold on to my tire and my seat to get off but as it was a bit higher, then that would help me a bit more.

As you make it alle closed, then those lights are great to have. You then have a small car.
 
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axerail.coffeecup.com
There are a couple of reasons for going "over the top" on some of this.

I have an interest in electronics, actually a bit more than an interest. I had an interest from about 12 years old (electronics and amateur radio) but went back to school at 55 years and got an Advanced Diploma of Electronics Engineering and it provides brain stimulation.

My trike will be used to try and drum up some "wow, I've gotta make one" responses. Coloured lights attract young minds.

Other than my local small town of 500 or so souls (Axedale, Victoria, Australia), the nearest two towns are Bendigo (actually a city) at 21km+/13.5 miles, and Heathcote (a couple of thousand) at 31km/19 miles. At my age, comfort and convenience are important.

Carry accessories becomes much easier if it can be all integrated.

I like something to play with when I am out riding, otherwise I could get bored.

It is cheaper to build yourself for some things and you can customise them to suit yourself. I have found so many things have annoyed me in the past because they have been designed to suit someone else.

Trying to add another element to trike/bike building.

There are probably a few more but you should now have the general idea. More things will be revealed here as the build progresses.
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
181
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Netherlands
I want to ad also confort to my trike.
I want to ad a solar panel and a battery so I can charche my phone for as I do long distance rides.
I also want to ad side bags for stuf that I use while riding.

When I had a car, I used a tablet in it to see my speed and navigation. It was a bit overkill, but connected to my radio it was also great for music.
 
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Messages
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If you are only going to charge your phone, a battery bank type charger might be the easiest/simplest/cheapest. You will end up with the phone battery time plus the battery bank. Charge both at night and you are covered.
That is what I want to use. They are small and easy to use.
 
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Feb 20, 2013
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
Took my mostly-completed and functioning temporary Warrior dashboard out for a test ride over the last few days. Seemed to take forever to get it to that stage. A few observations ...

In its current position, the turn indicator switch is not conveniently enough located although, on the Warrior it had to be where it is without resorting to "off-board" wiring to place it closer. eLecTricks will have it more conveniently on what I will call the steering column.

The 10W solar panel monitoring and switching that allows me to see the 12V battery's component of supply current at any time is quite informative. As I ride into shaded area the battery supply current is seen to increase as it has to make up the supply shortfall. When the battery current is seen to drop to zero, the panel is supplying all the required current and the battery is not being depleted.

The large 10.1" (257mm just doesn't look right) Ulysse Speedo display is very easy to read and very informative - and looks quite complete and technical to casual observers. This attracted a few onlookers at a shopping centre display for RUOK day yesterday.

The navigation display is (obviously) also easy to read and an added bonus is that not only does it show where you are on a trail or bike path, the large detail shows you where you are relative to streets and roads that are hidden from you. Trails run behind houses and many other things. Riding through parks, etc., shelters you from the outside world and relativity with it - especially if riding in unfamiliar territory.

Having a nice large display of what the lens of my camera was pointing at was great and enabled me to see the subject and whether the camera was tilted, etc. Will be very useful when the camera is mounted out of sight on a rotator.

All in all, a very pleasing outcome for the project, providing valuable feedback for later modification/installation in eLecTricks - and practical use in the meantime.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
Some more work nearing completion. I have spent part of the last few weeks swapping the very rough Hilgo transmission from eLecTricks to my Warrior for testing. I had to modify a few things along the way, contributing to the time involved. I am doing this so that it can be tested and proved for easier and later installation in eLecTricks. Should result in less re-cutting, re-welding, re-painting, etc.

I have the drive and gear selector slider installed, not within the mid drive bottom bracket like before, but above it on the front boom/spine (what is the correct name for this?). Today I managed to get the bespoke selector lever and its mounting bracket made and fitted, enabling me to confirm that it should work well. I still have to shorten the front chain, make a chain tensioner and fit in the appropriate position. I am hoping that the front chain idler can stay where it is.

With any luck, I'll get it all finished and road tested for a planned ride this coming Wednesday. Photos will be posted after the ride - if it happens satisfactorily. Looking forward to it as this will be a milestone.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
The planned ride did not eventuate due to a few last minute "impediments" and improvements. I had to take a two wheeler instead - ugh, to be avoided at all costs in future. Only need to fix cables, control lever, and front chain tensioner, test, and I can then supply details. I now have two days to get it rideable.

I have been keeping an almost daily blog on my computer since I started this particular build in Jan 2017 (yoicks!) to avoid cluttering this site with dead ends, rehashes, etc. Hope to bring it all up to date soon as I get back into the actual build.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
Warrior Modifications Update:

I got quite close to a ride yesterday. Took the modified Warrior for a test. The recent modifications did not let me down but some of the electrics, who's wiring had been disturbed, did. I did not have enough time to remedy the problems so rode a two wheeler instead - ugh!

After trying to "paste" my version of the Hilgo mid drive transmission from eLecTricks to my Warrior for testing and proving, I had to stop, reinvent the wheel and try from a different direction. Rather than installing the mid drive within the otherwise spare rear end bottom bracket, I had to make a new bracket to mount it immediately above the empty bottom bracket. It was too difficult to maintain unimpeded rotation and the chain angle was too great. The final version worked fine.


The mounting bracket and gear selector slider for my version of the Hilgo transmission as installed on my Warrior for testing.

The gear selection slider also came in for modification. Its derailleur wheel had to be moved towards the front of the trike to avoid interference.


Here is the slider essentially as installed. The two screws with lock nuts in the centre are used to limit the side-to-side movement. The screws contact the bridge piece that holds the standard derailleur adjusters used for cable tension optimisation.

The front chain tensioner is essentially as was intended for eLecTricks but I had to make up a mounting bracket.


The front chain tensioner. Driven from the right of the image, the tensioner consists of two large derailleur wheels and it pivots as required around the 8mm bolt used as a mounting shaft. I am not completely happy about the spring and would prefer a coiled spring around the shaft - when I find one.

A mid drive gear selector was required and I had to come up with something. It looks worde in the image than it really is. I will look for something to cap over the ugly bits soon.


The gear selector uses a single length of cable coming from one end of the slider, through a sheath to a sheath clearance nut welded to a backing plate, around what is rotated by the selector lever (held in place with a couple of tabs that will be crimped against the cable, and returns to the other end of the gear selector slider. Rotate the le ver clockwise to go faster and counter clockwise to go slower.

So, there you have a brief description. Believe me, it will all look much more beauterer when painted.

How did it all go? The trike seemed to want to go. With the drive to the rear wheel roughly equal to the rear cassette gear 4, I ended up with two lower gears and 2 higher gears from the 5-speed cassette. I didn't have much time to get too acquainted with it all but that should happen this week after I address the electrical issues. All in all, the Warrior felt like a totally different trike to ride, sort of going from the somewhat mechanical feel of a manual transmission to the smoothness of an automatic. The only problem was that the shift lever in its current position does not provide visible feedback regarding its relative position status. There is limited places where it could be mounted but, excusing the unintentional pun, it can be shifted.

What has all this resulted in? I am now a fan of the Hilgo type transmission, as rough as it is in this incarnation. So much so that I am seriously considering designing my own eLecTricks suspended rear end so that the transmission inclusion can be a little more streamlined. All in all, a somewhat long but satisfying exercise. After the electrical remedies, I think I should look at the steel wheel idea I mentioned elsewhere to get it out of my system if it doesn't work and get back into eLecTricks construction.

Thanks for looking at this diatribe.
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
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Warrior Modifications Update:


The only problem was that the shift lever in its current position does not provide visible feedback regarding its relative position status.
You could easily attach another cable to the shift lever and run it up to a remote indicator conveniently mounted somewhere.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
Website
axerail.coffeecup.com
The full possibilities of a crazed mind have not been explored yet. Still need to get used to it all on a smoother surface. to see where it should/could go.


I left this image out yesterday. It shows the mid drive, chain to the rear wheel (out left image), the slider derailleur wheel (centre image), a pair of vise grips holding the selector lever (obvious), a barely visible bottom wheel of the front chain tensioner, and the mesh seat. Everything is easily removed/fitted.

Looking forward to putting in some more ride time.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Axedale, Victoria, Australia
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axerail.coffeecup.com
Further thoughts - before anyone gets too carried away on the wings of euphoria:

What gear ratios have I ended up with? Has it really been a worthwhile change?

As I had experience riding with the Warrior's then current mid drive, I did not taken the time to analyse the gear ratios that would result from the Hilgo modification and overlooked something that will appear obvious. As it turns out, the results of the modification, at this stage, were not quite what I was expecting in the low ranges, and could not be because of what I had overlooked. The day after the first short test ride, while trying to climb an uphill grade through the front gateway, I found the pedaling much harder than expected and decided to see what I had ended up with in the way of gearing.

The Warrior was an electric conversion that went from 48t-38t-28t front chainrings to a single 46t chainring. This traded off low gearing and high gearing, giving rise to my first Warrior mid drive. This drive consisted of the 48t-38t-28t chainrings for driving the rear wheel, plus an additional 48t chainring that was driven by the e-Assist 46t chainring providing a very slight underdrive of 0.96:1 ratio. This arrangement effectively made up for the loss of the original two chainrings with the e-conversion and was certainly worthwhile as it restored the missing hill climbing ability - especially for that steep one riding east from home. At the other end of the scale, I found that windmilling was limiting my maximum speed ability. This is what led me to wanting to try to incorporate the Hilgo transmission - other than its irresistible appeal.

Firstly, the front, single chainring, was a 46t. The new mid drive had a cassette of 32t to 12t. This resulted in the mid drive always turning at a faster rate than the pedals - great for higher speeds but deficient for lower. The output sprocket on the mid drive was 20t driving the rear wheel via a 28t to 14t cassette. This resulted in the rear wheel turning at the mid drive speed when the retained-for-experimentation rear wheel derailleur's 4th gear was selected, slower when using gears 1 to 3, and faster when using gears 5 to 7. The ratio between the front chainring and the mid drive was not really conducive to obtaining the aim of much lower gearing. The higher gearing aim was met with the modification.

There were a few ways to bring about fixing the lower gearing:

  1. Replace the output sprocket on the mid drive with a smaller one - unfortunately, resulting in lowering all gear ratios.
  2. Replace the e-Assist chainring with a smaller one - with the same negative results as above.
  3. If possible, add a smaller chainring to the e-Assist motor - preserving the existing ratios and adding lower ones.
The existing arrangement would be fine for higher overall speeds or if drive was provided by multiple chainrings. In my case, provided I could fit a 28t chainring, No. 3 would provide the best of both my low speed and high speed requirements. Replacing the mid drive cassette with a modern 12-speed MTB with its more-than-40t lowest sprocket is something I do not wish to do at this stage. It may be something I will consider with eLecTricks after I have Warrior-tested for many more kilometres. Harry Lieben's Hilgo is driven by two chainrings.

Today's task will be to see what the possibilities are for that additional front chainring.
 
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